10 Commandments

[surenderer]

10 Commandments?

Peace People,
I have alotta Christian friends( although Im not Christian myself as most know here ) and pretty much to a person when asked if they want the 10 commandments up in school or in their workplace they say "yes" but my question is what about the punishments? should we obey God's laws but not carry out what he says to do to those who break them? for example-- Worshipping any other god should be punished by death. (Ex. 22:20) Blasphemy against God should be met with death. (Lev. 24:16) Performing any work on the Sabbath should be punished with death. (Ex. 31:15) Except making graven images, which doesn't carry the death penalty, but instead carries with it a punishment that shall be visited upon your children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren (provided you don't worship the graven image, in which case it's death again). Shall we post in our public, government run schools: "Thou shalt have no other god before me", and "Thou shalt make no graven images", and "Thou shalt keep the Sabbath day holy"? How do these Commandments equate to the First Amendment to the Constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof"? Can these Commandments possibly exist side by side with the First Amendment? They are, in principle, the exact opposite. The government of the U.S. cannot tell people how to worship, what to worship, or that they should worship at all. And the government cannot endorse or condone a particular religion's set of rules of worship.....thus the problem with seperation of church and state anyways i would like to hear you guys opinon on this.....peace to you

 

[altec]

I completely agree with you that the 10 commandments, or any other type of religious dotrine should not be put in public places. As you said, the seperation of church and state should be upheld because the implications behind these different doctrines emphasizes certain religions, while others are not represented.

 

[Katazia]

did u miss a not?

 

[Leo Volont]

Dear Surrender,

It's not that people really care about the 10 Commandments and their strict enforcement. It is just that the 10 Commandments represents better than any other instance God revealing His Truth to Humanity.

However, I wonder of the politics of the 10 Commandments in this day and age. Making a big deal of the 10 Commandments would seem to support the Zionist Master Race view that the Jews are divinely authorized to advance their World Conquest and that all other peoples deserve to be murdered or enslaved.

I would rather have the Crucifix displayed -- to remind everyone of what murderers those zionists are.

 

[altec]

did u miss a not?

Yes, yes I did. For some reason when I get typing really fast, I tend t do things like that....leave out letters, small words, and all of that. Sorry.

 

[Enigma'07]

I believe that we should still follow the 10C, but the punishments are no longer valid because we live in a differant age, were salvation in gained though differant means.

 

[surenderer]

I believe that we should still follow the 10C, but the punishments are no longer valid because we live in a differant age, were salvation in gained though differant means.[/QUOTE


Dude remeber these verses in the Bible:

Lk.16:17
"It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."

or:


Ps.119:160
"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."


or:

Ps.119:151-2
"Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth. Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever."


or:

Mt.5:18-19
"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven



these verses dont have an "expiration date" do they?.... or am I missing something? peace to you

 

[Enigma'07]

Law is important, but it isn't how a person is saved. Following the law shows a desire to be like Jesus, since He is the only person that hasn't broken them. Or are you saying the punishments should be valid too.

 

[Lemming3k]

I believe that we should still follow the 10C, but the punishments are no longer valid because we live in a differant age, were salvation in gained though differant means.

Enigma im going to quote something you said in a different thread

I believe the Bible is absolute truth. Whatever it says is right, whether I have evidence of it or not.

Now is the bible absolute or not? You should believe all or nothing, if you have the view it is all correct then you should believe all, including that the punishments are correct and just.

 

[Enigma'07]

It is the same. The pusnishments do not apply because they have already been made, when Jesus died on the cross.

 

[surenderer]

It is the same. The pusnishments do not apply because they have already been made, when Jesus died on the cross.

Enigma dont you understand that Jesus(pbuh) said something completely different?

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



He didnt say untill he "died", he said untill heaven and earth passed away(thus the end of the world) as a follower of Christ anything else anyone else says should be irrlevant!! As a matter of fact verse 19 is probably talking about Paul because he did preach something totally different from Jesus(pbuh).....peace

 

[Laser Eyes]

The laws that God gave to ancient Israel through Moses no longer apply. We don't have to burn bulls, sell daughters into slavery, avoid working on the Sabbath or any of the other things mentioned in the Old Testament, neither does God want us to do those things. Naturally the punishments for breaking those laws are no longer relevant. Those laws were part of a covenant that God made with the nation of Israel, a covenant that was terminated at Pentecost, in the year 33.

The 10 commandments were a basic part of the law that God gave to Israel. Those commandments had equal force with about 600 other laws that were equally binding on Israelites. Like all the other laws the 10 commandments were part of the covenant between God and the nation of Israel. Indeed the 10 commandments were referred to as "the tablets of the covenant" (Deuteronomy 9:9). That is why the ark in which the tablets were kept was called "the ark of the covenant" (Joshua 3:3; Hebrews 9:4; Raiders of the Lost Ark).We are not subject to the 10 commandments or the other laws that God gave to Israel any longer. As I said above, God's covenant with Israel has been terminated and a new covenant mediated through Jesus Christ is in effect.

We are now subject to the law of Christ. Jesus said that the whole law hangs on two commandments: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind ... You shall love your neighbor as yourself" - Matthew 22:35-40. The law of Christ is not set out in the form of a comprehensive code like the old law but the new testament does state many commands and decrees that we are obliged to obey.

But that is not to say that the ten commandments and the old laws have no relevance whatsoever. The 10 commandments and the rest of the Mosaic law reflect God's attitude towards things and therefore should be studied, but they do not have the force of a legal code that we are bound to follow. The old laws had "a shadow of the good things to come" (Hebrews 10:1) meaning they would naturally lead to and reflect the law of Christ.

 

[surenderer]

The laws that God gave to ancient Israel through Moses no longer apply. We don't have to burn bulls, sell daughters into slavery, avoid working on the Sabbath or any of the other things mentioned in the Old Testament, neither does God want us to do those things. Naturally the punishments for breaking those laws are no longer relevant. Those laws were part of a covenant that God made with the nation of Israel, a covenant that was terminated at Pentecost, in the year 33.

The 10 commandments were a basic part of the law that God gave to Israel. Those commandments had equal force with about 600 other laws that were equally binding on Israelites. Like all the other laws the 10 commandments were part of the covenant between God and the nation of Israel. Indeed the 10 commandments were referred to as "the tablets of the covenant" (Deuteronomy 9:9). That is why the ark in which the tablets were kept was called "the ark of the covenant" (Joshua 3:3; Hebrews 9:4).We are not subject to the 10 commandments or the other laws that God gave to Israel any longer. As I said above, God's covenant with Israel has been terminated and a new covenant mediated through Jesus Christ is in effect.

We are now subject to the law of Christ. Jesus said that the whole law hangs on two commandments: "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind ... You shall love your neighbor as yourself" - Matthew 22:35-40. The law of Christ is not set out in the form of a comprehensive code like the old law but the new testament does state many commands and decrees that we are obliged to obey.

But that is not to say that the ten commandments and the old laws have no relevance whatsoever. The 10 commandments and the rest of the Mosaic law reflect God's attitude towards things and therefore should be studied, but they do not have the force of a legal code that we are bound to follow. The old laws had "a shadow of the good things to come" (Hebrews 10:1) meaning they would naturally lead to and reflect the law of Christ.

Thanks for the reply....but let me ask you this---besides loving your neighbor and loving God is that all we have to do?Why didnt Jesus(pbuh) say that with his death these things would change?As a matter of fact he said the opposite. And he also said that anyone who said or taught differently would be"called the least in Heaven" and nobody did untill Saul came along(who never met him) and changed the Jesus's(pbuh) message. Jesus also said that anyone who taught the laws of Moses(pbuh) would be called "great" in heaven these are HIS words and anything else anyone says should be irrlevant.I also find it interesting that you think that those laws were brought just to the isrealies(which i agree with) but Jesus(pbuh) was brought for mankind when even Jesus(pbuh) said that he was brought for the "lost sheep of israel".....I love you christians but you guys give me a headache

 

[Laser Eyes]

Thanks for the reply....but let me ask you this---besides loving your neighbor and loving God is that all we have to do?

Can you be more specific? Is that all we have to do to achieve what exactly?

Why didnt Jesus(pbuh) say that with his death these things would change?As a matter of fact he said the opposite. And he also said that anyone who said or taught differently would be"called the least in Heaven" and nobody did untill Saul came along(who never met him) and changed the Jesus's(pbuh) message. Jesus also said that anyone who taught the laws of Moses(pbuh) would be called "great" in heaven these are HIS words and anything else anyone says should be irrlevant.

I notice from your above posts that you are well able to quote scriptures. So let me answer your question and quote a few scriptures for you. It is clearly stated in the Old Testament that God intended to establish a new covenant at some later time:

"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah - not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers" - Jeremiah 31:31

Jesus considered himself bound to follow the Mosaic law and he did follow that law. Indeed Jesus frequently quoted from the Old Testament when he was teaching. Later he said he was the mediator of a new covenant:

"Likewise he also took the cup after supper, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.'" - Luke 22:20 See also Hebrews 9:15

The old covenant with the nation of Israel was to be no more once the new covenant was established:

"In that he says, 'A new covenant,' he has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." - Hebrews 8:13

I also find it interesting that you think that those laws were brought just to the isrealies(which i agree with) but Jesus(pbuh) was brought for mankind when even Jesus(pbuh) said that he was brought for the "lost sheep of israel"

Jesus was indeed sent first to the Israelites:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." - Matthew 5:17

But the beneficiaries of the new covenant are those who become Jews in spirit. Being born a Jew is meaningless under the new covenant:

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." - Romans 2:28-29

So anyone can benefit from the new covenant, it is intended for all people in all nations, unlike the old arrangement which was a special relationship between God and the nation of Israel.

 

[Adstar]

hi Surenederer

The Law is still the law. The 10 commandments still stand. What was good then is still good now and what was against the law then is still against the law now.

I have not heard any true Christian say that it is ok to steal or to kill or to commit adultery or that it is good to transgress any of the 10 commandments. The Messiah was right when He said nothing would be removed from the law. But what has changed because of the life and teachings of the Messiah Jesus is who carries out punishment for breaking of the law and who judges people. The punishment for breaking the law is still death nothing has changed. Sinners who are in rebellion against the Law and say that sin is not sin will be doomed to eternal suffering. But you know and everyone knows that No human can fully comply with the law because we are carnal/faulty. Every human no matter how self controlled or seemingly righteous can go through life without transgressing one of the Ten Commandments. So if there is not mercy/grace from God all men would be condemned by the law to eternal damnation. This is where the grace of God through the Messiah Jesus comes into play. Those who love truth those who love the law within their hearts and minds are in effect keeping the law in spirit, they are spiritually minded and it is through their agreement with the law that they are deemed righteous by God and have eternal life with Him. Its all about having the right spirit,. the right attitude We Christians get that through following the Words Of Jesus and believing in Him as the Promised Messiah / Redeemer / Savor.

Paul said:
Romans 7
14For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

And again Paul said:

Romans 3
8And why not say, "Let us do evil that good may come"?--as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

All Have Sinned
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10As it is written:


"There is none righteous, no, not one;
11There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one."
13"Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit";
"The poison of asps is under their lips";
14"Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17And the way of peace they have not known."
18"There is no fear of God before their eyes."


19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


God's Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Boasting Excluded
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days